Chaz: You're a dyke not a dude, accept it

Chaz Bono, originally born Chastity Bono and daughter of Sonny & Cher, is the perfect example of why tranz is the erasure of lesbian women.These photos show how a dyke gets erased, and heterosexual coupledom gets put in its stead.

The erasure of lesbianism – and homosexuality in general – is clear in these transformations. Although Chaz still does look like a dyke to me, adopting the standard dress of the dudes, the last picture shows heterosexual coupledom and gender roles played out to the max. This is the bottom line, this is what it is all about.

It is rather ironic, that Cher, a gay icon, had difficulty accepting Chaz’s lesbianism when she first came out. Cher of course is a bit of a posterchild for doing excessive plastic surgery, as well as doing the femininity thing. And Sonny Bono, who went into politics (as a Republican) was able to accept her coming out.

Chaz changed her gender and name last year. Probably no wonder, considering the rest of the female neighbours in Hollywood look like this, in combination with Cher’s unacceptance and disappointment of Chaz’s sexuality. I wonder too if Chaz had an internalised sense of failure, for not shaping up to the ridulous level of femininity set by her mother, Cher?

Transgender and transsexuality is the erasure of homosexuality via the backdoor. No wonder The Establishment have rushed through all sorts of laws to support it, and the medical establishment is all over it (for the dosh).

Chaz: You’re a dyke not a dude, accept it.

64 thoughts on “Chaz: You're a dyke not a dude, accept it

  1. Sargasso Sea

    OMG. I hadn’t seen the *after* photos.

    Asian Honky and I saw Chastity at the freaking Texas State Fair in like 1995 and she was giving a talk about some dyke issue to a veritable sea of dykes. It rocked because we were all so glad that she’d stepped out of the damn closet FINALLY 🙄

    So when AH read that she’s now, magickly *Chaz* I was all, Surprise, surprise! No one saw that one coming!1!

    My mom and Cher should do lunch sometime, I swear.

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  2. noanodyne

    Yes, good point about the progression of erasure of the lesbian — and all on a national stage! She was trained by the best to perform, perform, perform and never stop performing gender. To hell with happiness or a life, be a performer of gender at all costs. I wonder if she would have done this if Sonny were still alive. But sadly, it doesn’t seem to have mattered that she did have a few role models in the ranks of the rich and famous (Ellen, Rosie, Melissa, k.d. lang). Or maybe that confused her more. Her mother’s performance of gender is at least as impressive as her singing and acting abilities; maybe without any other talents, Chastity figured she could at least do the gender performance thing to a turn.

    There was an extensive convo about Chaz in the comments to a really interesting post by Mag in January.

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  3. jilla

    Men don’t give a damn what their kids do once they are divorced or separated from the mother. The “caring” from the father is once removed, done by the mother “Daddy will be so proud of you”. “Look what Daddy bought you”. Wink wink. Until the split. Then whatever the kid does just falls off the father’s back like the proverbial duck/water, It’s not HIS fault, unless he can USE it. In fact, if it’s embarrassing or difficult, the father not only enjoys watching the kid’s and mother’s pain, while he fakes tacit approval and But gets points.

    But from radical feminists? Oy.

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  4. FAB Libber

    The 1998 book Family Outing detailed how Bono’s coming out “catapulted me into a political role that has transformed my life, providing me with affirmation as a lesbian, as a woman, and as an individual.” [from dikipedia]

    So, in 1998, Bono was a lesbian and a woman.
    By getting this gender-change malarkey, as of 2008, Bono is ‘technically’ now a heterosexual and a ‘man’.

    Lesbian erasure. Heterosexuality (visual approximation) in its place.
    Bait and switch. Tranz have erased homosexuality. *magick*
    Fuck knows how they wormed their way into the alphabet.

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  5. FAB Libber

    But from radical feminists? Oy.

    Jilla, what are you referring to? I have only reported what was reported (in that I was not there, I dunno if Sonny was accepting or not). But having an uber-femme mother with an obsession with plastic surgery probably does have at least a bit to do with it. I think it could be ‘failed femininity’ going on, she could not stack up to the model of femininity as done by Cher (let’s face it, no one could), so has gone the complete opposite. It is a bit like being surrounded by glossy fashion magazine covers 24/7, walking around in your house.

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  6. Sargasso Sea

    Thanks for the link to Mag’s post Noano. (And yes, it’s a chick packin’ all right 😉 )

    It’s all starting to come back to me now! At least the earlier stuff. I realize now that we were living in Central America and otherwise occupied when a lot of Chastity’s *chrysalis phase* was going down.

    Yeah, it was widely reported that Sonny had no problem with the whole thing which left the lefty liberal gaywads all in a snit. I remember that (now that ya mention it) like it was yesterday. I even seem to recall seeing a snippet of Sonny on the TV being sort of dismissive like, What’s the big deal. This is California. Everybody’s gay.

    I remember, too, being surprised at Cher’s (reported) attitude about it because well, it’s California and everybody’s gay. Even women. Duh.

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  7. jilla

    I was going between two threads, without distinguishing between them because they seemed to have the same theme, in my mind.

    So my comment was not to your post particularly. It was particularly, to the fuckbot comment in the other thread.

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  8. jilla

    SarsSea I too have had to piece the timeline together, except up to about Chastity’s toddlerhood. Since about then, I have not had tv.

    I remember what a card carrying asshole Sonny was. I would have to see it to believe he supported her. He supported whoever made him money, and whatever got him votes.

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  9. FAB Libber

    Hello acciogreenfly, whereabouts did you delurk from? Have not seen you about.

    Dyke was reclaimed a long time ago. It is probably one of the few words that have been successfully reclaimed. Possibly the same rules apply as for the N-word, in that the oppressor class cannot use it, but the group can use it among themselves, with pride.

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  10. Mary Sunshine

    In the lesbian feminism of the 1970’s we all referred to each other as dykes. It was our proud identity.

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  11. FAB Libber

    Ah, I think acciogreenfly might be my first tranzfan delurker!
    acciogreenfly.tumblr.com
    due to seeing some ‘tranz pride’ stuff there.
    The fascination with octopusses, good, they are indeed wonderful creatures.

    However, this one is VERY disturbing (gruesome warning to radfems):
    acciogreenfly.tumblr.com/post/4432692458/chelsea-grin-glasgow-smile-chelsea-smile-a
    mutilation, self-mutilation, never a good thing to have a hobby/fascination about.

    And now I am curious as to why the question “why use the word dyke” when acciogreenfly has a tumblr link to “fuckyeahdykes”.

    I gather acciogreenfly is under the impression that only genderqueers and bdsm-dykes are “allowed” to use the term? And that perhaps radfems have the reputation for ‘wrinkly old square prudes’?

    Ah, the folly of youth… *sigh*

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  12. FAB Libber

    This brings me back on point, of the post.

    Tranz, by its nature, erases lesbianism.
    Because as soon as Chaz got the ‘gender reassignment’, Chaz was, both officially and (tranz-)theoretically, NOT A DYKE, but a DUDE. That’s dyke-erasure right there. Now you can see why the homophobic establishment support tranz, gets rid of that pesky homosexuality ‘problem’, in a land where heterosexuality is the norm.

    You see, it is illustrated in that final picture, Chaz and her girlfriend now resemble a heterosexual couple. *magick*

    Most of the genderqueers seem to be college-age, and don’t see The Big Picture, the mechanisms by which the establishment use all the tricks of the trade in upholding their agenda. They think they can play at ‘gender-bending’ dressups, and “yeah man, that will show those conservatives”. There is way more to it than that, and those of us who have been around for a while know that global changes to power structures can’t be changed so easily. Sure, they let a few of you cwazy uni students play dressups, but it won’t change the system at all.

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  13. Sargasso Sea

    DYKE! DYKE! DYKE! *twirls around ballerina-style* I’M A DYKE! 😛

    But I wonder if I’m “too gay”. NAH! I’M A DYKE!

    dykedykedykedykedykedykedykedykedykedykedykedykedykedykeDYKE

    Gimme a “D”, gimme a “Y”, gimme a “K”, gimme an “E”

    What’s that spell? DYKE!

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  14. FAB Libber

    Good lawd, a spontaneous Dyke Pride parade has broken out.
    Being led by a chicken with a machine gun no less.
    LOL

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  17. noanodyne

    That’s the sound the chick’s machine gun makes!
    dykedykedykedykedykedykedykedykedykedykedykedykedykedyke

    I’ve been a hairy-legged, hairy-pitted, non-conforming DYKE since the current crop of early-20’s non-conformists’ mothers were in grade school. And I’ll be the same DYKE when most of them are married with two children and living in the suburbs, laughing at their former selves over wine spritzers, playing out their proper gender roles. Chastity is close to my age and obviously it didn’t make one damn difference that so many of us were non-conforming dykes or that she had so many more out-and-famous lesbians to be in solidarity with than at any time in the past — the fucking Pat won anyway. When gender is a thing of the past, then we’ll see the real difference in women’s lives. Playing dress up isn’t even making a dent in that.

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  18. ball buster

    lol Naon!

    I was just over at Chas’ site, and found this:

    “Chaz Bono was a male trapped in a female shell for as long as he can remember.”

    Even dikipedia sez The 1998 book Family Outing detailed how Bono’s coming out “catapulted me into a political role that has transformed my life, providing me with affirmation as a lesbian,/b>, as a woman, and as an individual.”

    Now all that is gone, irrelevant and wiped away now that she has decided to be a transman. It’s only a footnote now.

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  19. jilla

    Transing is heterosexual conformity. You’ve really laid it out, no mistake. I get it, but I’m still uncomfortable with singling out any one person. It must be very painful, regardless of where she started and where she ends up.

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  20. FAB Libber

    but I’m still uncomfortable with singling out any one person.

    As sad as it is, and there are a lot of tranz persons that would qualify for sympathy, due to being sucked into this surgical/medical circus, this particular person (Chaz) was for a number of years a spokesperson for the lesbian/gay community.

    Having gone from a ‘lesbian woman’, she is now theoretically, a ‘heterosexual man’.

    As a former spokesperson (and a public figure) for lesbianism, this defection away from lesbianism is actually a critical situation to point out. Furthermore, Chaz is publicly ‘promoting’ tranz as if it is no biggie, that it is a natural thing to do, blah blah. Just like changing your socks!

    Further, I am not mocking Chaz (I don’t mock F2T, because the root causes of F2T are very different to M2T, which does deserve mocking in most cases). Most (if not all) of the lesbian tranz-critical community are deeply saddened by M2T, particularly butches who least conform with heterosexual gender roles, and it is really tragic to see a female poison and mutilate herself in this way. In Chaz’s case, we have a timeline in pictures. So yes, it is tragic, and it has got to stop. Chaz is a publicly available case study.

    At its core, the anti-F2T stance is one which promotes defiance of the (het) gender (appearance) conformity for ALL women, not just lesbians.

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  21. jilla

    I meant “woman” where I said person. I am uncomfortable with singling out any one woman. The issue as a whole? Yes. Males? Yes.

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  22. FAB Libber

    It is difficult not to, unfortunately. Generally though, I have steered away from individual F2T examples, but sometimes you just have to see the visuals to make it sink home. It puts a face to the human casualty.

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  23. FAB Libber

    It’s a fine line to walk.
    But sometimes seeing the damage to females makes you realise the full extent of the tragedy. I don’t worry too much what males are doing to themselves or each other, that is up to them to sort out – it is out of the remit of feminism, we can’t fix everything.

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  24. ball buster

    Not to mention, the damage this does to butch lesbians who are quite often accused of “wanting to be men.” Now every asshole in the world is going to use Chastity Bono as an excuse to stereotype ALL butch lesbians as such.

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  25. noanodyne

    Yep, bb, I’ve been thinking about that exact same thing. That has been the slur hurled at us since forever: “you just want to be a man.” F2T’s are hurting lesbians in all these ways because they want to be “men” without ever having to make any sense of that concept or whether they are any more unhappy that the average butch lesbian or that they aren’t just chasing the latest fad or that they aren’t mentally ill in other ways. Chastity, like a lot of other gender trenders are taking the relatively easy way out of all that and I don’t have to accept her reasons for doing that!

    Chastity Bono has no better idea what being a “man” is as a man than she does what being a dog is as a dog. All she knows is what her culture and society tell her, either as independent forces, or through men’s mouths and actions. There’s no such thing as the thing she wants to be, except in her mind as she reconstructs what society/men told her, then performs that. If the thing she wants to be doesn’t even exist, the focus for her pain around that particular thing is just as made up. She’s chosen a reason for her pain and by golly, the jendah-based sex role is it. Play acting as a man may take some of that pain away, but it will absolutely leave all the other pain untouched (hating one’s body because one is fat, for example, or the fact that people will still not take her seriously). All jendah is performance, all of it, and that’s what Chastity wants to do (and it’s what tranz talk about doing when they claim to be starting over at puberty). So in choosing some play acting to personally feel better, Chastity is crapping all over lesbians. I feel sorry for her that she thinks that will help, but I’m also angry because she is like a giant beacon to a bunch of confused butch lesbian teenagers who do not have the wealth and privilege to ride this out in la-la land. And she’s convincing a whole bunch of stupid straight people that they were right all along: dykes just want to be men. Chastity will get hers (whatever the hell that ends up being) and in the process she will do immeasurable damage to how many hundreds? thousands? of women. We do not have to go along with her fantasy and her mental health is not more important than all that of all the women she’s influencing directly and the fight against the gender-obsessed patriarchy generally. And you know what? I don’t even have to believe that she was unhappy enough to do this!! That’s a tranz tactic to get sympathy and drugs and surgery. We don’t know that they aren’t just garden-variety disappointed that everything hasn’t turned out their way in life. We also don’t have to overlook that this is a fad, FFS.

    She’s made herself a symbol and we’re going to call everything into question behind that. Tough luck for her, I don’t have to take that on.

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  26. jilla

    I hadn’t thought of anyone using an a celebrity FtT as a role model, because really, she’s just come into my consciousness as someone other than a lesbian. Bad, no argument.. What I think about without knowing anyone who says “Yes! Chaz did it so can I” is what is going to happen in 5, 10 years time, when the medical merde hits the fan, and these FtTs level of awareness changes enough that they regret. I believe the will be so many suicides, added upon the ones they tell us they’ll do if they can’t get what they want. And I come back again, to the MengelePsyches and the governments that leave them licensed, and free to do this.

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  27. FAB Libber

    The post-tranzing suicides – I think GallusMag or someone might have the (rough) stats on that, but given the post-tranz status, a time when a tranz achieved their objective and as the party line goes “got everything they needed to feel normal”, questions that assertion at a fundamental level. The reality is that a significant portion of tranz find that it has not really cured ‘the problem’ at all, and surgery was not the answer. Which then comes full circle back onto tranzjacktivists promoting the tranz agenda to a lot of confused people, those who do not readily conform to the stupid jendah binary, so they figure the problem is with themselves rather than the fucked up system of jendah role binary.

    High profile lesbians doing this just compounds the problem, and there will be more who jump into this trend without knowing what it is all about (and just looking at the numbers of young lesbians jumping into this is worrying). The post-tranz suicides won’t stay at the same percentage as they are now, they will go higher. And tranzjacktivists just don’t give a shit. I agree Noan, this is very much a fad. There will be a much higher percentage of regretters due to this fad.

    The F2T thing really is primarily a lesbian issue (yeah, I am sure someone will drag out the smaller percentage of het women who tranz). I am not sure that it is even strictly a butch issue though, due to the more rigid jendah adherence going on these days, any dyke with a short haircut is considered butch. I am going by the photos Dirt puts up, and many don’t look that butch to me, just obviously dyke who don’t ‘do femininity’. (Also thinking the one in the Freshly Charles vid didn’t strike me as butch either)

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  29. April

    How does your theory explain people like me, who transition into becoming gay? Were I to stay the way I grew up, I’d be straight. I’m only gay after hopping the fence.

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  30. FAB Libber

    Oh April April April

    Sexual orientation is the red herring in all of this.
    Sexual orientation is the attraction to those of a particular SEX, that is biological sex. You know, male/female, the stuff you (should have) learnt in high school biology classes.

    Pre-trans and post-trans, you are attracted to the same SEX as you were always. You have NOT changed your sexual orientation at all, have you???

    You need to read the primer, and get back to me.

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  31. FAB Libber

    By the way April, if you actually follow the Chaz story, then Chaz also did NOT change her sexual orientation either.

    Chaz was a dyke, a female attracted to a female.
    Now Chaz wears a ManSuit, and is still attracted to females.

    In Chaz’s case, it is the erasure of lesbianism, and the replacement of heterosexual coupling appearance.

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  32. April

    Okay, I’ve read your primer, and while it’s full of straw men and sophomoric errors of thought and text (“Naturally occurring categories in nature”? Really?) I’ll accept it for the sake of argument here.

    If Chaz cannot become a man, if his male appearance is merely a simulacrum placed on top of a woman, then how is it erasure of a lesbian? He’s still there, and if he’s always going to be a woman no matter what he does, and if he still likes women and that doesn’t change, then doesn’t that simply make gynephiliac trans men another kind of lesbian?

    Similarly, I’m curious about what you’d think of gay trans men, that is androphilic trans men. By your definitions, it seems that they would be straight women who have adopted the appearance of gay men.

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  33. FAB Libber aka Dave

    April, stay on topic – it’s only your second comment ffs, and the tone that you demand I answer your questions is incredibly rude. If you continue in this way, you will find yourself banned.

    If Chaz cannot become a man, if his male appearance is merely a simulacrum placed on top of a woman, then how is it erasure of a lesbian? He’s still there, and if he’s always going to be a woman no matter what he does

    You seem to have a comprehension problem? And you did not bother to read the comments either, so I will just repeat what I said earlier:

    Because as soon as Chaz got the ‘gender reassignment’, Chaz was, both officially and (tranz-)theoretically, NOT A DYKE, but a DUDE. That’s dyke-erasure right there. Now you can see why the homophobic establishment support tranz, gets rid of that pesky homosexuality ‘problem’, in a land where heterosexuality is the norm.

    You see, it is illustrated in that final picture, Chaz and her girlfriend now resemble a heterosexual couple. *magick*

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  34. April

    I didn’t know that asking a question was equivalent to demanding an answer. I apologize if attempting to engage in dialog with you feels like an attack. I also find it rich that you are lecturing me on being rude, since you’ve been nothing but condescending to me, talking to me as if I’m a child and implying that I am stupid simply for asking for clarifications.

    You see, it is illustrated in that final picture, Chaz and her girlfriend now resemble a heterosexual couple. *magick*

    Why are you so hung up on resemblance? If you truly believe that Chaz is still a woman, and that gender identities are social constructs, then why does the resemblance matter at all? He still has the XX chromosomes and the female reproductive system, and if that’s what does it matter that he takes synthetic testosterone and calls himself a man? If he’s still a woman than he’s still a woman. Your primer goes to great lengths to emphasize that merely appearing to be of a different sex does not really change anything, and yet here you are, insisting that Chaz’s new appearance changes something, and changes it for the worse. You reject trans theory, so it seems self-contradictory to accept it for the purposes of criticizing Chaz, but not for anything else. It’s not that I have a comprehension problem, it’s that you have not addressed this inconsistency in your critique.

    Now you can see why the homophobic establishment support tranz, gets rid of that pesky homosexuality ‘problem’, in a land where heterosexuality is the norm.

    It’s absurd to suggest that trans people are supported by “the homophobic establishment.” I really don’t know what to say to you about that. It’s just nuts. Where do you get this notion? Have you ever, ever seen anyone who could be considered “the establishment” support this notion? Could you provide a link?

    (These, by the way, are not demands. They are honest inquiries. I really do want to have a conversation with you.)

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  35. ball buster

    He still has the XX chromosomes […]

    Then why are you calling her a “he”? You can’t have it both ways, so which is it? You either believe that Chastity is a woman or a man. If you believe that she is still a woman, then don’t call her “he.” From what I understand, transfolk consider the term “heshe” or “shehe” to be derogatory, yet from the sounds of it, you want Chastity to have the benefits of both.

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  36. April

    Then why are you calling her a “he”?

    Because I’m also trans and I respect his identity. I only accept the premise of Fab Libb’s argument for the purpose of discussion, in an attempt to draw out and clarify what I suspect are some fairly profound self-contradictions. I disagree with dismissing the gender identities of trans people wholeheartedly.

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  37. ball buster

    April, I don’t think you understand. This isn’t a blog where YOU decide what premise is acceptable for discussion. I find it highly inconsistent and self contradictory that you would argue for Chastity’s chromosomal sex when you clearly believe that gender identity is more important biological sex.

    You are also ignoring the points that Fab has made about Chastity erasing herself as a lesbian in favor of conforming to heteronormative appearance. This not only erases lesbianism, it reinforces the patriarchal notion that ALL lesbian couples mimic het relationships when it’s simply not true.

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  38. April

    April, I don’t think you understand. This isn’t a blog where YOU decide what premise is acceptable for discussion.

    I do not believe that I ever claimed that it was. I noted my disagreement with Fab Libber’s premise, but acquiesced to it for the purposes of this conversation. If, somehow, rhetorical agreement seems like some kind of scary trans fascism (“She’s agreeing with me for the purposes of elucidation! Somebody make her stop!”) where I am attempting to seize control in a midnight coup d’état, then I really do not see how you can hope to have a conversation with people who don’t already agree with you. If that’s what this blog is for, fine. If this is a space where everyone sits around agreeing with each other about what awful people everyone else is, I’ll respect that and be on my way.

    I would suggest on my way out the door, however, that it makes you really shitty feminists. The feminists I admire are the ones who can confront their opponents with rigor and honesty, who do not need to dismiss evidence or call their interlocutor’s intelligence or honesty into question to make an argument, and who certainly don’t cringe from contradiction and interpret it as a kind of attack that must be retaliated against, which is how you seem to interpret my statements.

    I find it highly inconsistent and self contradictory that you would argue for Chastity’s chromosomal sex when you clearly believe that gender identity is more important biological sex.

    You find it self-contradictory that I can argue on someone else’s turf? That I can accept someone else’s statement for the purposes of conversation, while still holding differing beliefs? That must make it very hard to talk to people who don’t think the same way you do.

    You are also ignoring the points that Fab has made about Chastity erasing herself as a lesbian in favor of conforming to heteronormative appearance.

    I’m not ignoring that point, I’m confronting it directly. (Unless by “ignore” you really mean “fail to agree with”, in which case I cheerfully plead guilty.) If Chaz can’t change his sex, if he’s still “really” a lesbian, as Fab Libber claims, then nothing has been erased. If, on the other hand, you believe as I do that Chaz really is a man, then he wasn’t really a lesbian to begin with, he was just exploring his options before he committed to transitioning, and thus nothing has been erased.

    This not only erases lesbianism,

    Really? All of it? Chaz erased all lesbians? Wow. The balls on that guy!

    it reinforces the patriarchal notion that ALL lesbian couples mimic het relationships when it’s simply not true.

    Do you mean to imply that butch lesbians who date femme lesbians are somehow participating in their own oppression?

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  39. ball buster

    April, you *still* don’t get it. This isn’t YOUR blog. YOU don’t make the choice of what we discuss and do not discuss. Your male entitlement is showing, along with all it’s manipulative bullshit that goes along with it. I don’t have time to pick a part the wholeness of your disgusting mental flatulence, but I will on a few points. Observe:

    I really do not see how you can hope to have a conversation with people who don’t already agree with you. If that’s what this blog is for, fine.

    This isn’t about who agrees with who. This is about YOU and YOUR male entitlement to decide what goes on here. Your problem is that I’m not fooled by your pseudo-intellectual posturing, and are now pouting because I haven’t conceded your points, which are flagrantly self contradictory double speak.

    The feminists I admire are the ones who can confront their opponents with rigor and honesty

    Which you clearly do not possess. I certainly can’t hope to have a discussion with someone who doesn’t respond to what I actually write, but instead twists and distorts it to suit their own personal attacks. 99.9% of the shit you’ve written comes from your fantasy la-la land, where reality gets filtered through a misogynist sieve.

    You find it self-contradictory that I can argue on someone else’s turf?

    For the third and final time, I consider it self contradictory for transfolk to claim terms like “shemale” are derogatory when you are clearly arguing for acknowledgement of both gender identity and chromosomal sex. Fucking reread this until it sinks the fuck in.

    I’m confronting it directly. (Unless by “ignore” you really mean “fail to agree with”, in which case I cheerfully plead guilty.)

    Unlike you, I say what I mean. Words have meaning. You know, like WOMAN means born female. Not “anyone who feels like taking on girly strappings and daintyish things.”

    Do you mean to imply that butch lesbians who date femme lesbians are somehow participating in their own oppression?

    Absolutely not, but you know that. You’re just creatively reinterpreting as an excuse for personal attacks, which are typical of MEN who don’t get their way. They whine, they cry, they obsess about who agrees with who and wants every feminist to suck their (possibly nonexistent) dicks. Well, it won’t work with me and I can pretty much guarantee it won’t work here either.

    Your erroneous conflations are typical of intellectually dishonest, reactionist politics that are instrumental in failing feminism. Congratulations, you ARE the shitty feminist you rail against.

    Oh and lastly, Chastity is either a man or a woman. I notice how you pick and choose which is more convenient for your rhetoric, rather than taking on the point I made in the first place. Fucking loser.

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  40. April

    April, you *still* don’t get it. This isn’t YOUR blog. YOU don’t make the choice of what we discuss and do not discuss.

    I am soooo not trying to. I’m trying to reply to the post.

    I certainly can’t hope to have a discussion with someone who doesn’t respond to what I actually write, but instead twists and distorts it to suit their own personal attacks.

    Your projection is obvious.

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  41. survivorthriver

    PS: I had a late friend who barely escaped being one of the first Big Pharma and medical science F2T’s at our local University, and she asked the Invisible Obvious question back then: “Why do I have to have double mastectomy and take testosterone that makes me feel angry just because the doctors don’t think a 300+ lesbian with spikey hair driving a harley is acceptable?”

    I think she nailed it, way back when.

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  42. FAB Libber aka Dave the Squirrel

    Gosh, I step away from the computer for a few hours…

    Thanks BallBuster, you handled April in a much calmer fashion than I would have been able to do (I am old and cranky April, that’s a heads up for you).

    BB nailed the main points, April, you are viewing everything through your tranz goggles, and I really doubt that you will ever be able to comprehend the discussion.

    For example, I made two main points, that of the reality perspective (Chaz is still a female, mastectomy and T do not change the reality of that) which is also the internal pov (and I am not talking about internal tranz view). The second main point, is the external view (from ‘the world’s’ pov, specifically people who do not know Chaz is female) that Chaz and her girlfriend now APPEAR to be a heterosexual couple – and that is the part specifically that is the lesbian erasure. This is NOT a contradictory stance at all, merely reporting from the two angles of what is and what appears to be.

    However, your claims do rely on trying to mishmash gender and sex together, and trying to make a coherent stance out of the conflict (as well as twisting BB’s stuff about). We do not have such a conflict; biological sex is real and measurable, gender is a societal construct and will actually change over time or place, and reports of ‘internal gender’ are not measurable or even provable. I might expand on this tomorrow, currently it is late and I am tired.

    This April, is a totally priceless piece of transplaining (worthy of the mansplainin’/transplainin’ blog hall of fame):
    If you truly believe that Chaz is still a woman, and that gender identities are social constructs, then why does the resemblance matter at all? He still has the XX chromosomes and the female reproductive system, and if that’s what does it matter that he takes synthetic testosterone and calls himself a man? If he’s still a woman than he’s still a woman.

    That is truly priceless… “he still has XX chromosomes” ROTFLMAO

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  43. ball buster

    April, if you’re going to hang around, then maybe I should mention that I don’t give a fuck what feminists you personally admire or approve of. You’re a guest here, so you’re in no position to be intruding your likes/dislikes or where you fling your approval. In fact that’s typical male behavior to go around talking about what women YOU approve of, what politics YOU think are worth talking about, what YOU feel about everything, ect. Like we’re just going to fall to our knees and start kissing your ass because you’re a male. It perfectly demonstrates how you want gender status both ways. You still want to be valued as being male, even though you persist to portray yourself as female.

    Projection? Well, you’d know all about that wouldn’t you?

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  44. ball buster

    Fab, I’ve been trying to behave myself since I’m technically at your house. 😉

    And yeah, throwing up the whole XX chromosome really is a laff and a haff because obviously gender identity is superseding biological sex in “April’s” argument, yet he backtracks to biological sex when he sees he’s getting nowhere with gender identity.

    He can’t address what I’m *actually saying* so he’s resorted to “I know you are but what am I?” Yeah, REALLY honest, that is!

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  45. FAB Libber aka Dave the Squirrel

    You did a brilliant job BB, ‘you dun me proud’ LOL. 😛
    In fact, you did a better job than I would have.

    You can see what April says over at reddit, with the other identity of TroubleEntendre.
    reddit.com/r/TransphobiaProject/comments/h77vm/they_think_transsexuality_is_the_erasure_of/
    (copy/paste into new tab or browser)

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  46. bugbrennan

    So…. haing watching “Becoming Chaz,” I have learned that Chaz tranisitioned to become a giant douchebag.

    And yes, I am worried about the erasure of lesbianism.

    FAB, I forwarded this blog post to a friend today. It’s a good one.

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  47. ball buster

    Thanks Fab! ❤

    Well, since he got nowhere here, he had to go whine to all his buddies about being dissed like the asshole he was. Cry me a river, boyz, then float a boat and paddle away.

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  48. jilla

    Look what I found in a recent story done re Bono’s book promotion tour:

    “As for Jenny? The couple has been in therapy and are dealing with the many changes Chaz’s transition brings to the relationship, from having a deeper voice and more aggression thanks to the testosterone, to Jenny’s self-identification as a woman moving **from a homosexual relationship to a heterosexual one.**

    It wasn’t easy. “We really love each other and had a strong connection and we really did the work,” Chaz said. “We did the work we needed to do.”

    Oh and psyche speak there at the end.

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  49. rebel13

    To go back to part of the discussion before April’s spectacular derail, I think there is something to the idea that proximity to extreme femininity, without exposure to other influences, sometimes plays a role. IRL I know two young women who identify as transgender and have at least considered, and in one case possibly gone forward with, hormone and surgical treatment. Both of these women grew up with sisters (in one case, a twin) who fit into femininity, whereas the women I’m talking about are much less gender conforming. Of course it wasn’t the FAULT of the sisters that these women felt they weren’t really female — but how hard would that be to be a tomboy or whatever with a super-girly sister, ESPECIALLY if they were raised in a family where sex role conformity was expected/enforced and they were not appreciated for their own strengths? So in Chaz’s case, for sure I can see where having Cher as a mom, and not being allowed to be different (I’m assuming that), let alone being valued for it, could lead one to conclude that, if girls are like THAT, I must be a boy. I think it makes total sense and it’s tragic and I feel lucky to have been raised by a relatively progressive mom in the era of Free to Be…You and Me when girls could do and wear whatever they wanted — AND I didn’t have a sister, since femininity and I are none too friendly.

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  50. KatieS

    ” but how hard would that be to be a tomboy or whatever with a super-girly sister, ESPECIALLY if they were raised in a family where sex role conformity was expected/enforced and they were not appreciated for their own strengths?”

    Perhaps this seems out of the blue, but to take it a step further, I am wondering if there is anything causing the super-girly girl to be that way. I’ve seen this and I did not like the vibes from the dad to the super-girly girl. Actually, I’ve never seen a girl who acted that girly before. I found the vibe from the dad creepy. Somehow the vibes were like a couple dating or something. We are talking grade school age when I ran into this family and saw this. And yes, there was a younger sister who refused to be identified as a girl from a very young age. I have wondered, off and on, if child sexual abuse going on in the family could cause a girl to believe she is a boy as a matter of survival. Might it be dissociation or something? I don’t mean that this is always the case, I don’t hold that view. But I’m wondering if in some cases this might be going on. I don’t know much about this and I’d never heard of it being part of it. Anyone know?

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  51. Pingback: Hypocrisy – thy name be twanz (part 1) | twanzphobic since forever

  52. Pingback: Cha-cha Chaz – not a dude! | twanzphobic since forever

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