MumsNet – delightfully twanzphobic


Looking at my incoming stats for today, I could not help but notice a fairly big pile coming from MumsNet, specifically one thread talking about the Daniel Craig (James Bond) IWD video.

So I had to investigate, to see what the consensus was regarding Tranz, over at MumsNet, because in the main, the MumsNet crowd are generally fairly patriarchy-compliant. I am pleased to report that overall, save for one obvious troll (StreetWiseHotMum), the rest were refreshingly twanzphobic. In general, the feminists over at MumsNet are on the lighter end of the feminist scale, with the exception of one twanzphobic radfem, dittany, who is a regular there, injecting stealthy radfeminism at periodic intervals (and a friend of mine). The other, whom I discovered there today, sakura, linked to a couple of my posts. Certainly I would love to ‘know’ who you are (if you haven’t posted here before, you will go into mod, so please give me a hint!).

Here is a selection from the 11-page thread, many comments, but not all, from dittany and sakura. Well done, and it seems that the pro-FAB position was taken onboard and understood by most in that thread.

It’s not confusing. People, society, do^ ^actually believe that the entire sum of a women= no dick (a non-male), long hair, high heels, lipstick and a dress. That’s it.
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Actually the more I think about it, the more insulting it is. It would be like getting a white person to put on blackface on an advert saying that racism still exists.
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Well trans certainly have power somewhere even if it isn’t the media, because they got the most patriarchal insititutions – medicine and law – to award them woman status over the heads of actual women.
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I don’t think trasns-sexuals have a loud voice in the media, but I do think they have a disproportionately loud voice in feminism.

And as Dittany says, they have a louder voice than women, within law and medicine.
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God, I am in such a bitter mood. I’ve finshed reading Mary Daly’s Gyn/Ecology and I’ve had just about enough crap to last me a lifetime. I don’t think I can carry on with this. Just let them win.
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Could you explain why ‘trans’ have a disproportionately loud voice in feminism?I see the point about confusing gender with sexuality/sex and how this could be damamging. (I couldn’t put it into words that make sense yet though) I’m sorry to be so dim, I’m normally a lurker on the Feminism boards.
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Do you know what percentage of the population women are compared to trans-women? ANd yet nobody’s even sure who actually has the most power in media (I mean it could quite easily turn out to be trans women, in spite of their miniscule numbers compared to women, seeing as they definitely have more power in medicine and law than 53% of the population)
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Is it the case that the patriarchy seizes on transsexuality (and its potential for undermining the category of woman) for its own purposes? All part of the backlash against feminism.

Rather than trans people forming a powerful lobby of their own
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Quite possibly Prolesworth, and it’s also possible that trans-women know they’re not women but they have to act in order to get the treatments they want from the medical system. Transsexuals have always had their place in patriarchy but it scares me half to death that they can now erase the M on their birth certificate and change it to an F and be put in the same prison cells as women. So yes, the concept of transsexualism is perfect for patriarchy.

I’ve come accross the aggressiveness of trans-women online and believe me, they don’t even like women deep down. They behave very much like men.

What I don’t understand is why they don’t join feminists, why do they have to dominate like men?

They’ve taken over lots of feminist blogs, they’ve got quite a feminist following, they’ve divided feminists into us and them (quite a cute divide and rule patriarchal tactic there) and any feminist who says “but hang on a minute I don’t think a castrated man has got anything to do with women” is labelled as TRANSPHOBIC and a bigot and silenced. Now the problem I’ve got is that the only “feminist” issue they’re fighting for (pretending that gender are sex are the same) actually works against women and they’ve dumped all the other important issues that women face.
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I have nothing against trans women per se, […]
What I cannot abide is transexxuals changing laws that actually affect women (for example, now being allowed in women’s prisons) without even checking with women i.e 50% of the population whether that would be okay or not.
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I cannot even begin to imagine what it must be like knowing you simply are not able to play the game as one of the “boys” , but they shoot themselves in the foot because whenever women try to define their reality, trans women (the online ones at least) lump feminists into the same group as the men who go about bashing and killing transsexuals. I mean, the lack of integrity here is astounding.
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A certain section of trans people have definitely made it their mission to invade feminist spaces and insist that feminists, in particular radical feminists, accept trans as women.

It’s also noticeable that trans politics, BDSM politics and pro sex industry politics are almost always being fought for by the same people. That should be ringing alarm bells if nothing else is.
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As far as I understand it, gender is entirely a social construct. Sex is biologically determined, but some would argue that biological sex is not as clear cut as XX/XY.
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What about the menz?
Do they say that men don’t exist as well?

> Of course not.
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Sex is biologically constructed not socially constructed. I don’t think there’s an animal on earth that doesnt’ recognise sex. Humans didn’t invent it.

If you see gender as the hierarchy that has been created so men can dominate women then it becomes obvious that it is a social construct.
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But the extent to which patriarchy insists that we make intersex babies physically clearly one or the other is shocking.
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So from my POV like men who support feminism that’s all well and good, and for MTF trans people to support feminism that’s great too but they shouldn’t be setting the agenda.
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There is a fundamental contradiction in wanting to be part of a sex class whilst simultaneously arguing that sex differences should be eradicated.
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Actually it’s not arguing that sex differences should be eradicated, that is too much of a contradiction, it’s about saying that the definition of a member of the oppressed class is nothing more than feelings about what it is to be a woman or external appearances or a combination of the two. Fuck, I mean you have to be a little bit concerned about the potential there for eradication.
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i know quite a few mtf trans, (none of them identify with the feminist lobby at all, afaik) and it is more the ‘how to’ industry that i object to. essentially businesses set up to transform and create a ‘woman’ by the addition of clothing, make-up, voice classes, movement classes. it’s fascinating. the point that society dictates that a woman acts and looks a certain way is nowhere more visible. complete reinforcement of a totally artificially contructed gender binary.

in my head (and i’m aware this is a pretty utopian vision lol) no-one would identify as trans in the future, because there wouldn’t be any need. society would be accepting of everyone wherever they found themselves on the gender continuum, whatever they wanted to wear, however they wanted to walk or speak, whether they chose to paint their faces or not. intersex conditions would at least be less traumatic as a result. and there would be no reason to specify gender on most forms. why does it matter? either i am an engineer or i am not. either i wish to claim for parental leave, or i do not.
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yes, that’s true. our female body is part of who we are.It’s definitely not an abstract feeling in the way that trans claim.

even our energy is different. you can feel a man in the room a mile away, even if he’s dressed as a woman.
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Trans women exist all over Asia and Brasil. they don’t even try to usurp women, because who would want to be a woman there, and besides, they know they’re not women. Why the hell should European, Australian and American trans women click their fingers and get laws changed over the heads of women?
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the thing is, you are doing nothing to convince me that you aren’t looking at the world from a patriarchal viewpoint. If you are not happy with excluding trans women from womanhood it can only be because you have accepted the view that women, being the negative, hologram-type “other”, can take on all the males who don’t fit the patriarchal masculine stereotype.

And yet, men are not willing, or expected to, accept their own kind ? They beat up and kill their own kind and the solution is to get women to absorb them?
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Trans is a very conservative viewpoint. It is opposite of everything that feminists have been fighting for since the year dot.

It shouldn’t surprise anyone that men can do femininity better than women. It was, after all, the patriarchy that invented femininity and masculinity. Neither have anything to do with women and neither are natural. Femininity is merely the requirements placed upon women in a patriarchy. IN CHina footbinding was the height of femininity. IN the U.S plastic breasts are the height of femininity. In other cultures having your clitoris hacked off represents a “highly feminine” woman. Men and the patriarchy dictate femininity.
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I don’t feel repulsion to trans women. I feel a repulsion towards the need of some of them to dominate women and a strong repulsion against the ease with which they are able to get the patriarchy to change laws in their favour. It is very difficult for women to get anything from the patriarchy. Not so for trans. Now trans women can scratch the M to and F on their birth certificate

the erasure of women begins here.

Also mentioned on that thread was a referral back to an old youtube, the Dove Evolution clip.

There were one or two other points that came up in the MumsNet thread, but I would like to deal with them as separate posts on their own, as this thread is long enough.

16 thoughts on “MumsNet – delightfully twanzphobic

  1. jilla

    “I have no idea what’s going on with Bond in drag and the point it’s trying to make.” Repeat.

    Well, imagine. I had to go to MumsNet to see my comment on this echoed. So what *was* the point? I still don’t get it.

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  2. FAB Libber

    Well, the pomos, pozzies, funfems, bdsmers, queers, trans are all in bed with one another. The only thing about the pomos is that they just can’t define anything to save themselves, coz everything is infinite shades of grey and sooooo hard to define. They can’t even define ‘woman’.

    I think women know when they are being dangerously hated.
    Yep.

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  3. lishra

    I especially like this observation: “There is a fundamental contradiction in wanting to be part of a sex class whilst simultaneously arguing that sex differences should be eradicated.”

    Never will I understand how someone can reconcile the ideas that “gender is meaningless!” and “trans women ARE real women!”…. like…. for reals here, folks?

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  4. jilla

    Welcome Lishra. Great blog. I have been asking for someone to do a “carnival” or round-up. We have so much good work going on, don’t want to miss any. Can we send you links, if we find something outstanding in our rambles?

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  5. lishra

    Thanks, jilla! I’d be glad to put up some type of official rad fem carnival of sorts at some point. I already do semi-frequent link roundups for some of the things I’ve been reading lately, so if you come across something notable and let me know, I can always put it there too. There really is so much stuff going on in our little blogosphere. It’s been hard to keep up these last couple of weeks because of my classes…. that is, it’s been hard to keep up with coursework since I’m so busy reading everyone’s blogs : )

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  6. lishra

    Oh, and FAB Libber: is it okay for me to link to your posts in my link roundups? I haven’t done so yet since I wanted to make sure that’s cool with you. Basically, for every roundup I want to just say, “Go look at everything FAB Libber’s written this week.” Heh.

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  7. FAB Libber

    LOL and then *blush*
    Yeah, it’s fine to link.

    When I started this blog, I did want it to be a quiet little corner, but that didn’t happen, so I gave up on the concept – the blog took off at amazing speed. I am only blogging while I have the time, if circumstances change, I will probably stop.

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  8. jilla

    FAB I am wary of public linking for “this” blog. It will only be OPEN unprotected threads which will be linked, no?

    I realize this sounds contradictory to my question re sending links to lishra, but I wasn’t thinking of here. I can adjust my reponses here accordingly if something is likely to be linked.

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  9. FAB Libber

    It will only be OPEN unprotected threads which will be linked, no?
    Even if private threads were linked to, someone without the password would just get the title and a prompt to log in with the password. In general, radfems don’t link to private posts, so I don’t see a problem.

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  10. Pingback: Jendah: The emperor’s new clothes | twanzphobic since forever

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