So why the lies?

At the recent “waddabout teh twanzwomen?” thread at Twisty’s (and strange how that really sounds similar to waddabout teh menz). It was decided by the dedicated Twisty groupies that Twanz=AOK. The thread is a mega one, and bound to be good blog fodder pickings for months to come. Broken links below.

This little gem comes from commentor “evie” (not sure if evie is trans or just a trans-supporter) My emphasis:

February 11, 2011 at 10:59 am

m Andrea “So when we have a bunch of people who say “oh of course I was born in the wrong body and I must really be a woman BECAUSE — and this is their reason so pay attention — I feel like performing traditionally coded girly activies“.”

This is not what they say, usually. This is what some people said, way back in the days when sexist, homophobic medics would deny treatment to anyone not giving that reason. As the profession has got more enlightened, so trans people can be freer about what their actual inclinations and personalities are. There are tons of dykey trans women, and tons of campy trans men. Really. If some trans people do propagate gender norms by their behaviour or self-description, surely they deserve no more vitriol than cis people who do the same.

Most trans people transition because they are deeply unhappy with certain physcial aspects of their body. There is growing evidence that this is neurological: the brain expects a body of a certain kind, and feels crap when presented with evidence to the contrary. The only successful method of easing that discomfort is physical change. See Zoe Brain’s first post.

So, all this “feel like a woman” stuff were just lies in order to get ‘sexist, homophobic medics’ to give trans treatment and surgeries. Fair enough I suppose. But! How come transactivists barged onto feminist blogs, roughly four years ago, claiming the exact same thing?

Were radical feminists performing SRS and giving out hormone treatment?

I don’t recall so. In fact, I think I could confidently say, we were not. So why bother lying to us, particularly when you are trying to maintain you want our alliance and support?

Of course, the funfems swallowed this lie, hook line and sinker. Gulp! On the Twisty thread (later) you can see lots of trans-supporters declaring “Trans are my sisters!”. Yep, and I am Sparticus. How terribly supportive of you, trans-supporters. Tell me, if Idi Amin or Hitler threw on a dress and declared they felt like women, would you support them as well? Well, dammit if you aren’t just denying them their “human rights” to dress like a woman! By funfem reasoning, anyone who (online I might add) declares they “feel like a woman” has the door held wide open for them. Mind you, as most of this happens online, the trans in question could look like this:

FactCheckMe (FCM) brings up a very interesting point, now that the “feels like a woman” lie has been exposed for what it is. On Scum-O-rama, the Gendered Intersex Brain post, she remarks:

the alternative of course is that they HAVE been lying all this time, or that they are lying now, to get their SRS, just like they said. in which case, all of these trans-critical posts and the above graph will be most useful to the fun-fems, who have fucking believed all transwomens shit this entire time, and actually convinced themselves that it made sense. when it clearly doesnt.

what do the fun-fems say, when the transwomen admit that they have been lying the whole time, just to get their SRS? when in fact (as FAB libber mentions) its not the FEMINISTS who are giving out SRS. so why lie to us?

what excuse would the fun-fems make for transwomen who admit they have been lying to them the whole time? say that it was all just “survival lies” and forgive them? what excuse do they allow just regular (non-trans) men who lie to women constantly too?

damn this shit is chilling. it really fucking is.

Excellent point FCM. Are women so conditioned (and blinded) by patriarchy that when men’s lies are exposed, they will “forgive them”? Apparently so. It does not seem to matter what men do to women, they will forgive them. Even trying to blow up your pregnant wife (and son) with a grenade is ‘worthy’ of forgiveness, or at the very least, not hating him. How terribly understanding. If it were me, I would at least be very very angry, and I would at least despise him for a long period of time afterward. So we have established the parameters, it does not matter what men do to women, from daily lies to attempted murder, we are conditioned to ‘forgive and understand’. I posit another solution, anger, a demand that behaviour of that sort is not tolerated, and punishment for those actions. None of this turn-the-other-cheek stuff and let bygones be bygones.

So, getting back to our lovely online transactivists, the ones who lied to feminists for so very long. How will the funfem community react to the revelation? My guess, is roll over and take some more.

And yes, the main trans (M2?) argument was always “I have always felt like a woman inside … trapped in the wrong body”. There are comments after comments of this stuff from trans, including such over-the-top bullshit such as “I have always felt like a woman, even from the age of four”. Seriously dude? You felt like an adult human female when you were a pre-schooler. Even four year old girls don’t “feel like women”, so freakshow, get some psychiatric help and real fast, you are one sick puppy.

I think many radfems were open to what transactivists said when they first appeared around the blogosphere. We gave them that chance, to present their case, and this was the type of crap they came up with. Unconvincing to say the least. That led many radfems to start questioning transgender and trans-sexuality, and why the preoccupation trans had with wanting into women-only spaces. Of course, some radfems were very quick to see through all of this. I will try to find some “I feel like a woman” links, there must be hundreds. Probably looking over at the TransWord F-Word would yield the proof. Before you inflict the F-Word upon yourself, it is worthwhile to know that many radfems (female-born) are banned, whilst trans (male-born) are treated with respect, understanding and deference, so have your barf bucket ready.

So the (“twanzphobic!!”) radfem position on the exposure of the main transactivist lie? We knew it. It did not make sense. Even the few of us that tolerate males, do not tolerate males that lie. And you can GTFO of FAAB-only spaces.


23 thoughts on “So why the lies?

  1. veganprimate

    I have a hard time believing that commenter who said there are dykey transwomen out there. I highly doubt that. Because they’d look like dudes. Butch lesbians can sometimes pass as dudes, so I find it difficult that a transwoman would take the risk and look “dykey,” which by the way seems kind of insulting to lesbians.

    And that whole feeling like a woman at the age of 4 is ridiculous. You’re right about that. But that kinda makes me think about homosexuals who knew they were gay that young. I find that hard to believe as well. Homoemotional at age 4, yes. Homosexual way before puberty? Not likely.


    1. Aileen Wuornos

      I gotta say I disagree with you when you say Butch womyn look like/could pass as dudes. Butch womyn are a much better representation of womyn than say, patriarchal beauty ideals.

      And that whole feeling like a woman at the age of 4 is ridiculous. You’re right about that. But that kinda makes me think about homosexuals who knew they were gay that young. I find that hard to believe as well. Homoemotional at age 4, yes. Homosexual way before puberty? Not likely.

      Do agree with this statement though.


  2. FAB Libber

    You are right, any TW that is dykey-looking just looks like a lorry driver in a dress. A dude.

    I remember the “felt like a woman, since age of four” crap because there was post after post after post at the time. Looking back on it now, it looked like some sort of competition between them, to see when the FAABs would disbelieve them. Looking back on it now, I think it was an in-joke between them – “hah hah, stoopid wimmin, they will believe any shit”. Yep, deliberate lies, and they were seeing how far they could push those lies before being called on it. (The ages were going down and down and down over a period of blogging months).

    The funfems (and feminist-lite) were lapping it all up, “oh you poor dears”.
    So yeah, I will be mighty curious how the funfems will react when they finally know they were lied to.


  3. thebewilderness

    I think you are forgetting how big the trans umbrella is.
    A butch dyke is simply a Trans who chooses not to have the surgery.
    See how that works. You are what I say you are and I am what I say I am and don’t I just sound like every man you ever met. Criminy!


  4. FAB Libber

    I think you are forgetting how big the trans umbrella is.

    Yep, and by their logic, radical feminists are trans too!
    We have the ‘gender dysphoria’ going on, not being happy with being shoved into the ‘woman’ box.


  5. paleotrees

    I was proud of the whole five women pointing out at IBtP/K that “What about teh trans?!” was just “What about teh mens?!” in a dress. ((Then I commented on it and made #6.)

    And it’s true, I had to go to years of “gender dysphoria” counseling because I didn’t like the female role. (So much for “none of you objectors know what you’re talking about; you just need to educate yourself!!”) People started questioning me and suggesting I was “a man inside” when I was thirteen, and it took six or seven years (when I was seeing another counselor to help me deal with the previous counselings) for anyone to ask, “Were you, perchance, sexually molested as a child?”

    I’m not trying to say that dissatisfaction with gender roles is limited to molestation survivors, not by far. I think all women are dissatisfied to some degree. (Otherwise no one would spend hundreds or thousands of dollars at one time, trying to better conform.)
    But it is very common for abused little girls to reject the femininity mandate (children are not stupid — they know that femininity makes them vulnerable), and even go so far as to identify with the oppressor (see Carolyn Gage’s excellent essays on Teena Brandon, with whom I heavily identify, if you haven’t already).

    How so many “advanced blamers” and “radical” “feminist” women could manage to overlook those huge elephants in the room, when one of the basic tenets of radical feminism is in fact that gender is socially constructed bullshit, is stunning to me.

    As I quoth at IBtP/K, and have apparently been semi-widely requoted: “My insides have never matched my outsides either. Inside, I’m a human being. Outside, I’m a woman.”


    1. FAB Libber

      Inside, I’m a human being. Outside, I’m a woman.

      Yep, thought that was brilliant Joy.
      I did try to leave a comment there on that thread, but it never made it out of mod. It was perhaps why you (‘we’) were so greatly outnumbered.


  6. paleotrees

    Heh, thanks, FABLibber. It feels weird and narcissistic requoting *myself* around the internet, but ffs. It just bears repeating.

    And I agree that Jill was probably heavily modding her trans-questioning comments, which makes her look like a dufus. If she wishes to claim her blog “for advanced blamers only”, and then lets a lot of sub-101-level commenters comment, then she’s shooting herself in the foot.


    1. FAB Libber

      At her core, she is not a radical feminist. She has never claimed to be (as far as I am aware). She is a writer, and loves to write, feminism is fairly much just a random topic choice, a theme to the blog.
      Look in the direction of internalised misogyny and you might find your clue… (as to the pro-trans stance).

      I am the opposite. Not a writer, but a radfem. Not an expert wordsmith by any stretch of the imagination. Hence the posts are rambly and lack structure and direction.


      1. joy

        Yeah, she lost her “cred” over “Cuntalinagate” and subsequently lost it (at least for me) over the art and science “debates” (which I felt were misogynist and classist).

        I’ve been reading her for three or four years, mostly for the neologisms and some of the truly radical comments sprinkled in the sea of liberal shit.


    1. joy

      I’m reading “paleogal” as “paralegal”. Also, “paleotrees” is the same as “joy” by the way.

      The development of DID amongst molestation survivors is the obvious last step of the process I described above. (Other than, say, suicide.) Thank you for reminding me of it.

      Level 1: Rejection of femininity, to whatever degree
      Level 2: Renunciation of feminine identity (“I’m not a woman”) and/or identification with masculinity
      Level 3: Adoption of masculine identity (“I’m a man”)
      Level 4: Transitioning
      Level 5: Dissociative identity disorder.

      (Steps may be skipped, and of course not everyone will go through all the levels. But transitioning is a lot like a dissociative identity disorder, as Gage writes. It involves a massive partitioning of the self, as does any gendered identification, and in the case of many transitioners it is permanent.)


  7. joy

    Also, just think. With all of the time and energy that people have spent “going trans” and/or defending transness, and all of the time and energy that other people have spent deconstructing the arguments and holding ground, we could have had at least some kind of revolution by now.

    A revolution against hierarchies and binaries, including gender.

    But that wouldn’t benefit capitalism, now would it? Thanks, patriarchy! for infiltrating, diverting, and (arguably) appropriating the radical feminist cause.


    1. FAB Libber

      This is probably the main reason I am pissy at transactivists, hijacking and derailing feminism and women’s liberation so that we focus on them. Focus on males was exactly the reason the 3rd wave was completely useless.

      The other reason is of course, the trans movement getting so much acceptance in various parts, encourages people (yes, including male people!) to get surgeries and mutilate healthy bodies, and pump them full of artifical hormones.

      It is one thing to harm yourself, it is quite another to encourage others to do it. Radical feminism says to just accept people as they are, without alteration, without adhering to gender stereotypes in appearance (which actually has a bit of fashion element in it too, much later post I reckon).


  8. ajill

    The therapist said Hilary was recovering, but I guess we’ll never know for sure. She died in a car crash soon after the film was made.

    I hadn’t thought it through the way you lay out Joy. Thanks. I just get a kind of uneasy feeling, and sometimes I forget to trust my gut. Damn.

    aJill is the same as “Jilla” by the way.


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